Hey guys, Nate here. I'm proud to announce that I'm now the Program Director of Scrawny To Brawny. From now on all of my blogs and articles will be posted on the brand-new Scrawny To Brawny Blog. So if you enjoyed what you read here, please go check it out. (It's awesome, if I say so myself.) I'm keeping the NGE website alive for resource reasons, but will no longer be actively updating it. The best way to get in touch with me is through leaving a comment on the Scrawny To Brawny blog or by posting on the S2B Facebook page. See you guys over at the new blog!
4 Foods I'll (Almost) Never Eat Again
I have friends that when I show them a bottle of tequila they have an automatic gag reflex. "Get that thing away from me!" they yell. And I do. Eventually. First I find it prudent to wave it in their face. Maybe crack the top and give 'em a nice whiff.
But my point is this: they hate tequila because they've had a bad experience with it. (If you can call dancing till 3AM and waking up next to Thai hooker a bad experience.)
The following foods on my list are kind of the same thing. Eating them hasn't led to any type of cross-cultural sexual mishaps, and I haven't necessarily had one horrible experience with them. But, over the years, they're foods that I've discovered I can (and should) live without for the sake of my physique and health.
When I eliminate them from my diet my body fat decreases, I gain more muscle, and I generally feel better.
I bet you will, too.
Fast food of any kind
Well, yeah, that's kind of a no-brainer, right? We all know the high amounts of sugar, fat, and sub-par ingredients aren't doing anything for our health or our six-packs, but let me ask you a question: how many times have you had fast food in the past month? (Yes, Subway is fast food, too. And, no, it's not really a "healthy" alternative. Processed meats, bread, cheese, and the occasional vegetable does not constitute a high-quality meal.)
Despite our knowledge of all the "bad things" that are in fast food, most of us still find ourselves at the drive-through after a night of drinking. It's like we're compounding bad decisions:
"I'll have a shitty dinner of chicken wings and French fries, wash it down with a six-pack of cheap beer, unsuccessfully hit on girls, then drive to McDonalds."
Might as well drunk-dial the girl with the venereal disease while you're at it. You know, to really round out the evening.
Anyway, I just had to rant for a minute. I mean, shit, my friends hide the evidence from me. They'll purposefully throw their garbage away in the dumpster instead of risking having me see it on top of their trash.
Am I really that big of a dick? Maybe. Would I really ridicule them? Probably.
Corn-fed beef
Cows weren't meant to eat grain (their stomachs can't process it properly), yet that's exactly what they're getting in the CAFOs (Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations) where they lead their relatively short lives. Feeding cows grain instead of grass fattens them up quicker and leads to tasty, marbled meat that's seriously lacking in Vitamin E, beta carotene, CLA, and omega-3 fatty acids.
Grass-fed beef (or "pasture raised") is a much better option nutritionally, not only because of the elevated levels of nutrients but because grass-fed cows are rarely given hormones and antibiotics that may leach itself into the meat. (Sick cows that eat grain routinely need antibiotics to keep them semi-healthy.)
But here's the kicker: it's extremely hard to find grass-fed beef at restaurants. It ain't at your local Outback, if you know what I'm saying. That's why I make a concession or two: when I'm buying beef to cook at home, I always go with grass-fed, but when I'm out at a restaurant I either order something else or just bite the bullet and have the steak.
Egg whites
I'll make this short and sweet: egg yolks are good for you. They contain a nutrient called choline that's essential for cardiovascular and brain function. And according to nutritionist Jonny Bowden, choline helps prevent accumulation of cholesterol and fat in the liver. (Which is interesting because the main reason people avoid the yolks is because they're afraid of the cholesterol.)
Plus, eggs are one of the best sources of protein on the planet.
So do me a favor and start eating the yolks. You could use the healthy fats and nutrients they provide.
Whole-grain bread
A few months ago I edited an article by Brian St. Pierre, a great nutritionist and all-around smart guy. Here's what he had to say about whole grains:
"Unfortunately most whole-grain breads in supermarkets today are complete crap. They contain added sugar, fructose or high-fructose corn syrup to sweeten the product, as well as tons of dough conditioners to give it the mouth-feel of white bread.
While the glycemic index is overrated, it still reflects how quickly your blood sugar is raised by a food, and conventional whole-grain bread is barely any better than white. So really, you're not getting that much benefit from whole-grain bread."
While he goes on to recommend sprouted-grain breads (like Ezekiel bread), I normally don't eat any bread. I don't necessarily think that humans were meant to eat it. If you look at from an evolutionary perspective, we've only been engaged in agriculture for the past 10,000 years. That's a blip on the scale. Before that, humans didn't eat much cereal grains, relying instead on things they could hunt, pick, or dig up.
So I'd rather get my carbs from fruits, veggies, and peri-workout nutrition.
And, finally, one thing I'll never drink again:
Hypnotic.
Seriously. That shit's just nasty.
+++++
Do you have any foods you'll never eat again? Is there anything you routinely try to avoid? What about my list above? Any major concerns or questions?
Comments for This Entry
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And for an interesting article about CAFO's, check this out:
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/cattle-feedlot-visit
Some food for thought.
-Nate -
I agree with the first one. I will never eat fast food again. I read "Fast Food Nation" by Eric Schlosser many years ago, and since then, I have never gone back. It kept me away from fast food since then. Also, watching "Supersize Me" doesn't hurt either in showing drastic changes for the worse.
Cheers!
Mike -
Never eating MREs or drinking Gin again. Ever.
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Nice post brother.
First, Hypnotiq gets me laid. So that stays.
Second, when you say no more egg whites, how many egg yolks do you eat at once? I still eat a few yolks with like a cup of Eggology. Do you just crack a bunch of whole eggs and eat em up?
Really love your work man... thanks! -
Nate, is it okay to mix in some egg whites with a few whole eggs if your have eggs often (4 or 5 times a week)? I do this to get extra protein, so I mix 3 whole eggs with some extra egg whites.
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MRE's great call....Unfortunately I will be eating those again 2.5 weeks, FML.
Cereal...God I Love It, But damn it is my downfall and chock full of empty calories.
Vodka...Terrible
Big Name Protein Bars - Glorified Candy Bars
Happy Eating! -
Nice list and I'm on board.
I always buy grass fed beef and grass fed bison but I've had a helluva time buying high quality chicken and the occasional duck around here.
I saw "Fat Free Omega 3 enhanced milk" the other day and thought you'd get a good laugh doing the double take to understand what they're selling. -
seems like you follow the "paleo" guidelines. Glad to see that as I'm a huge proponent of the lifestyle and have never felt better.
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Good stuff, as always Nate. I've been preaching the whole egg thing for sometime now. It's hard to break through all of the misinformation out there.
I (as a trainer) really appreciate your non-nutrition-nazi approach ("bite the bullet"). On the one hand there is a misinformed public and on the other there's the organic-only-gluten-free-grass-fed trainers who get so extreme that the unhealth shifts from the physical to the mental.
What's your take on cheat days once week? -
Great post! I just read recently about all the garbage in Subway's bread and meats. Lots of corn syrups and solids.
I personally like the half and half approach to eggs since I eat them all the time. I usually have 6-8 eggs for breakfast, and only use 3 or sometimes 4 yolks.
By the way, if you're in a major calorie restriction phase (as I am now), a great little addition to said omelet is: a cup of red/green peppers and onions, cajun spice, garlic powder, a pinch of paprika, and black pepper.
When I restrict calories, I tend to get creative with the spices. -
I totally hear you Jason about the gin. Never again. ahahaha. I think i'm one of the few, because when I drink, I get stubborn and refuse to eat junk food that my friends are eating. When they get the idea to go to a fast food place, I always take a ride to get out of the house or whatever, but never order the food lol.
Nate, what would you suggest besides good bread as carbs that could be a good on the go carbs? -
I have to educate almost all of my new clients on the benefits of egg yolks because most people I come across have a negative view of them. Well said Nate.
There are a few things that just make me feel like crap that I'll never have again. I've had a healthy diet for most of my life, but will get curious from time to time to try something grimy, which always ends up making me feel terrible. On that list:
- fast food
- anything fried
- anything with aspartame. The headaches!
Great article Nate, thanks.
- Chad -
I gave up fast food when I started lifting heavy 10 months ago. I gave up all soda 3 years ago. I only drink tea and water (I'm not giving up my tea!!). If I indulge in dessert (once every month or two) it has to be something like the $9 a slice coconut cream pie at a Tom Douglas restaurant (yes it's THAT good and handmade at the restaurant). If I decide to eat anything, it better be the highest quality, best tasting version it can be. Amazing how after dejunking my nutrition, greens in a salad can taste so DAMN good.
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I agree, except for the part with the egg whites - while I think it's right to eat the yolk as well, eliminating the egg whites from your diet is a waste of food and money.
Plus, if you can't avoid eating corn-fed beef, you should at least get in some fish-oil capsules (or any other w3-fatty-acid source for that matter).
Finally, since I am not that familiar with alcohol - what is 'Hypnotic'? -
In the "egg whites" section - are you saying you won't eat the only-egg-whites bullshit, or that you crack open an egg, remove the yolk, and eat just that?
Which is it: you won't eat egg whites AT ALL, or you won't eat egg whites ALONE? -
There's got to be something worse that people eat than whole grain bread, I need my turkey sandwiches, come on! Grass fed beef is hard to find out here in las vegas, I went to whole foods and asked for it and they said, "Yeah, the organic beef is right here" But that's different, I said, and then got a blank stare...
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Wow, amazing timing. I just watched Food Inc. this week which shattered my perception of beef. The two foods items I have been wrestling with lately are bread and milk. Do you have a replacement for bread? It's been a huge part of my diet for many years. For milk, I have heard so many different arguments for and against it I have no idea what to think.
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I eliminated artificial sweeteners entirely from my diet this year. That's a good one to add to the list.
I'm not a bread eater either, but I sometimes get fresh "home made" tortillas- pretty much just organic whole wheat flour, salt and water.
I haven't had fast food in over 12 years. I'm guessing Hypnotic is some sort of alcohol because I don't drink and I've never heard of it. -
I agree with this! I do however eat the Ezekial bread from the sprouted grains. Usually just one slice with almond butter and some honey. Tis very tasty!
I agree about humans not being designed to eat bread.... you could use the same argument against meat though.
If you compare herbivores versus carnivore/omnivores you will see big differences in the anatomy, including digestive systems. Human's compare very closely to herbivores more so than carnivores and true omnivores.
Since humans are primates it also makes sense to study the diets of other primates like chimpanzees who share 98% of the same genes and shared a common ancestor with homo sapiens. Most primates eat plant-based diets with maybe 5% of their diet coming from meat or insects (termites.)
I'm not trying to convert you or anything. In fact, I'm not even a vegetarian. Although, I've cut down my beef consumption a lot. Maybe once or twice a month I may have a steak or bison burger. As far as animal products, I mainly eat whole eggs, sockey salmon, and free-range chicken. Maybe one day I'll cut out meat entirely. It's highly acidic and so it is necessary to eat lots of alkaline foods to counteract this and keep the proper PH in the body.
Not sure as of now, but I find the topic interesting. Thrive Diet is a good book to read, even if you are not vegan.
I think our human ancestors (before the rise of guns and hunting weapons) mainly ate meat in times when food was scarce or for survival purposes. If they did eat meat regularly it was probably a couple times a month or only occassionaly after a successful hunt. Which given our lack of claws, teeth, and speed probably wasn't all that often. I doubt they ate it daily or six times daily.
Anyway, just some food for thought! haha... Good post man, Nate. -
"Despite our knowledge of all the "bad things" that are in fast food, most of us still find ourselves at the drive-through after a night of drinking"
I hope not - that would mean driving under the influence ;) -
All cows are fed grain the last 4 months of their life. Only if the package says grass-finished is the not fed grain before slaughter. Grass-finished beef taste completely different from "grass-fed" beef. Also ALL animal protein is bad for you(that includes dairy and eggs). Don't believe me? The first book i recommend is The China Study by T. Colin Campbell. Plant protein is a much better source. Its not a complete source like animal protein, it is only complete when you eat a variety of plants. Where do you think the cows get their protein? Not a lot of people like to hear this but it is true.
One more thing to bum you guys out. A vegan in a Hummer has a lighter carbon footprint than a beef eater in a Prius. -
This is a great list! I'm currently experimenting with a gluten-free diet. I've always struggled with focusing and staying on task, and there's evidence to suggest that eliminating (or greatly reducing) gluten (a type of protein found in wheat, barley, and rye) intake can help. I don't want to take pills :-/
It's hard to tell if it's really helping my focus, but it's done wonders for my triathlon training. I'm running faster, I'm swimming longer, and climbing hills like a banshee on my road bike. So, I'm gonna stick with it. It's not easy to eliminate wheat, but it has forced me to pay very close attention to all of the ingredients of what I'm eating. -
No Hypnotic?!?! Mix it with Hennessy (incredible hulk), it's delicious.
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Excellent post! I figured that was your stance on meat, but was pretty surprised at the benefits of yolks (esp for brain function) as well as the whole grain bread points. Love this blog.
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Love the article today Nate...
Here we go...
Cold cuts: unless I haven't eaten or its the only option I avoid them. They're loaded with sodium, processed to hell and last 2 days in the fridge before they start smelling like a sulfur omlette
Sweeteners: loaded with chemicals and such...used to not give a shit but have recently switched to Truvia which is all-natural.
Skippy- for years I thoght this was okay to eat..not even close. Loaded with sugar/ hydrogenated fats. About 6 years back I mde the switch to all natrual-if it aint soupy I don't bother.
SPAM-hate it in my inbox hate it on my plate...looks like a pink hockey puck, tastes like death.
Farm raised fish-its fed shit...literally (sort of). I opt for wild caught to ensure a healthy nutritional profile.
...Those are my top 5 (or bottom 5).
Great post Nate! -
Nice post, Nate.
It's interesting that you brought up the grass-fed beef thing. I read an article from PN regarding CAFO's. Pretty cool read.
My question - is grass-fed beef strictly labeled as such? I don't know if I've looked hard enough or not. I don't recall seeing any of the cuts at my local stores saying "grass-fed" on the packing.
@Mike - I used to think the same thing about Skippy. The "All Natural!" labeling on the jar is very deceiving. -
I love fast food! I just have to plan for it so I can adjust my calories for the day. Same with bread. Maybe grains aren't meant to be eaten by anyone, but unless you have a gluten intolerance, not sure why you couldn't have it *some* times. Corn fed beef? Yes, pls. Sorry, I don't make enough coin to live off grass fed just yet. I'm not saying corn fed beef is optimal, but if that's all you can afford, it's better than going to a fast food joint. (You see what I did there?)
I don't have much on my list that I won't eat or drink. About the closest thing I get to is Whiskey. I have tried and tried and tried to beat Jack Daniels in a drinking contest so many times. I always come out a very very sad loser. Because of that, I can't even smell it without my stomach turning and mouth start watering, the beginning of losing whatever is in my stomach. -
Thanks for your post, Nate. Good stuff!!!
I'm glad someone else agrees with me on the whole-grain bread. Complete crap.
Want to compound the positive effects of the egg yolks? Here's what you do:
Have one or two whole omega-three eggs with your solid food meal following an intense workout. Include these with a small or medium-large portion of lean meat (grass-fed beef or hormone-free chicken breast) depending on your calorie needs. The cholestrol post-workout helps boost testosterone that much more than throughout the rest of the day.
-Eric -
Farmed fish
Muscle milk
Two pieces of crap to avoid -
Nate,
The fast food is a given, I hardly ever eat it either, except for the occasional Subway or Chick fila (sorry I live in the south)
But as for the other stuff, do you ever feel like you are so concerned about what you're eating that you are missing out on anything. I mean seriously, no bread products...ever? Dont you think that some of this is going a little overboard? Is it not possible to be a good lifter and get results while eating some foods that aren't perfectly healthy for you all the time? -
@ Pat
All animal protein is 'bad' for you? Meaning if my goal were to get big and strong, I should be grazing on different plants and vegetables as opposed to eating steaks and chicken? Maybe I'll get some 'sweet abz' but I would bet that I'd be malnourished. I'm beyond confused as to how you can honestly say that plants are a better source of protein. -
Subway is fine, just depends on what you pick from the menu.
I love the footlong meatball marinara Sub, whole grain bun, green peppers, onions, mozzerella. I can't possibly find a decent meal that will fill me up for 5 bucks ANYWHERE, and you could do a lot worse.
The Subway chicken breast slabs are complete garbage, after learning what goes in them, I once told them it's misleading to call them chicken breasts. It used to be a staple of mine (but always wondered why the chicken was rubbery) and now I don't go near it.
I pay about $3.15 a pound for my supermarket grade 93% lean ground beef. how much per pound do you pay for bonafide grass fed beef? A lot more, I'm guessing.
If I really wanted to get that serious about red meat, i'd take up hunting like some of my friends do. There you can be guaranteed the meat is grass fed all the way thru. -
I had a Balut Egg once when I was on vacation. I will never eva eva eva eat that again!
http://media.photobucket.com/image/balut%20egg/Skorp88/Top10Kid/BalutEgg.jpg -
I'm trying to avoid whole great bread, and find alternatives. I've read the positives about sprouted grains, and ezekial bread. I, however, can't find any where I live. Does it have an alternative name to it?
-
@ Brandan
When you calculate out your calories for the week and then your macro nutrients it's amazing how when you go to buy all the food the protein from sources outside meat really adds up. I generally don't come home now with more than a pound of beef and chicken and a few cans of tuna (I'm on a budget). I still hit my goal for protein every week. I think a lot of people eat portions of meat that are too large and never really consider that their getting protein out of theIr other foods as well. Keep in mind that 4 oz of beef and chicken yield nearly 20 g of protein, it doesn't take a whole breast. -
@Kevin
This is a complicated process so i will make this has simple as i can(like I said if you want to learn more about this start with The China Study by T. Campbell) A protein is made of 20 amino acids(AA) 11 your body makes and 9 you need from a outside source (food). All 9 essential AA are in animal protein because the animal has already turned the plant protein into a complete protein(all 20 AA). That is why they call it "high quality protein". Now when you eat the already converted AA(animal protein) your body has to break the protein down into its amino acids again and "reform" it into a protein you can use. But the acid in our stomach cant break animal protein down as easy as, lets say a lion stomach acid. So not all of the meat or dairy gets fully digested. The decaying meat or dairy produces poisons like cadaverine and putrescine, that become pathogens and toxins within the human body. Because our intestines are that of plant eaters, very long and not like carnivores that are very short, so they can easily get rid of the toxins. And since your long, long intestine is your major organ of digestion, some of those toxins will be absorbed by your body.
You can get all your amino acids from plants. The world’s biggest and strongest animals(gorillas, elephants, hippos, giraffes, and rhinos) all build their tremendously strong bodies with plant protein. Its all about a whole food plant based diet. Not about meat, milk ,and eggs rotten in your intestines causing cancer, heart disease and many other western diseases. What is more important to you, long term health or short term gains? Please read more about this subject and find out for yourself.
Thanks,
Pat -
@ Pat, you really need to read about the China Study and the half truths as well as misinterpretations presented as facts within it. It's pseudo science and should not be used as the foundation of anyones diet.
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@ Everybody
Just to clarify: I do eat the egg whites with the yolk. In other words, I eat the entire egg. I guess the title for that section should have been "Just the Egg White". And, yeah, it's perfectly fine to mix some whites in with a few whole eggs. I'm just tired of guys completely ditching the yolks.
And I do eat sandwiches every now and then. And I had toast last week at a restaurant during breakfast. That's why the title of the blog is "4 Foods I'll (ALMOST) Never Eat Again." :)
@ Tim Pierce
You know, I never really schedule "cheat meals" although I do see the value for someone on a very strict diet. I just kind of give and take. I know where I'm at most of the time and stick to the 90% rule.
Thanks for everyone for contributing. Keep it up.
-Nate -
The fast food habit is interesting. It becomes addictive but once you stay away from it for a couple months its easy to stay away like any habit. I haven't had fast food in over 6 years but oh how I miss my favorite french fries and onion rings from Burger King.
I do disagree however with your opinion on Subway. Subway does not resemble at all Burger King, McDonalds, or KFC. Its not the best I'll admit but not half as bad as these real fast food chains. -
Love the post and agree so much, though I've never had Hypnotic! I recently cut out as much bread gluten as i can from my diet, having it only once a month if that. As for yolks I try to tell people this all the time. As for the beef, cost effectively right now grass fed is not an option but will be as soon as work picks up.
I agree with fast-food though it's probably the one time a month I have gluten, either with friends or realizing that I haven't eaten in hours and have nothing to make. I think people have put Subway on a pedestal. yes it may be better then BK, McD and such, it's still overly processed meats and cheeses and mostly white bread (and seriously, how many nutrients are in iceberg lettuce???). Anyways, somethings to really think about.
Great post Nate, keep it up. -
@ Derek: When you do (ch)eat gluten after not having it for a while, do you feel sluggish or foggy later on?
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All this rap about grain fed beef, might want to take a look at this article at Precision-Nutrition, written up by a vegetarian no less:
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/cattle-feedlot-visit
he argues the concerns about grain fed beef really aren't there, and then going to the expense of buying grass fed versions aren't justified.
Like I said, I like my $3.15 per pound supermarket 93% ground beef, though I suppose I should inform myself if the source is as good as that one in Colorado. -
Sounds like everyone on here confused about the grass vs grain fed should go watch the doco Food Inc. That shit'll knock your socks off. Or read one of Michael Pollan's food books....or Mark Sisson's 'The Primal Blueprint'.
Anyway, aside from the obvious crap that I won't eat which is pretty much along the same line as you, Nate, I add legumes.
Vegans may crap a hemp pie over this, but legumes have some nasty shit on them called lectins that human stomachs aren't particularly fond of. Can lead to leaky gut and other nasty stuff that'll make hot girls avoid you like hazardous waste.
I've ditched them and feel much better. Many of my clients report the same.
So no more chickpeas and lentils, and I don't miss them.
@ Pat - A little evangelical with the no animal protein, don't you think mate? Be careful when stating your opinions as fact. As it is, you come off like a pompous vegan riding in on his high horse.
For every person who loves the idea of The China Study you'll find 3 others (such as me) who can shoot holes all through it's research and philosophy. -
@Will
@Tom
Thanks for your opinion. Would like the names of the books or studies. Would love to read them. Like i said, don't take my word for it. There are many studies on the subject, for example the UN and the 2010 American Dietary Guidelines has just proposed that everyone eat a plant based diet.
UN: http://www.unep.fr/scp/sc/
2010 ADG: http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20100615/proposed-dietary-guidelines-take-aim-obesity?src=RSS_PUBLIC
Thanks again,
-Pat -
Not sure if anyone noticed, but a few people have linked to the my friend John Berardi's Precision Nutrition site where there's a great article by Ryan Andrews.
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/cattle-feedlot-visit
(I posted this as the first comment on this blog, also.)
-Nate
PS - Thanks for keeping everything civil in the discussions. -
One night (14 years ago) where everything went wrong...
1) Cornish Scrumpy
2) Diamond White
3) All Day Breakfast
I still get flashbacks that make my stomach turn! -
Never eat/drink again:
1) McDonalds (its pure crap)
2) Pigeon (had it once, f*cking nasty)
3) pernod
4) Diamond white cider
5) canned corned beef
6) anything from cinnabon
note: If anyone is thinking about drinking diamond white cider, dont do it! it takes about 3 days to recover from and a lifetime to regain the brain cells. -
Hello, Nate. I've been frequenting your site for the past few months. I'm an aspiring sports journalist and strength train and am quite the sports junkie, just like you.
This article is certainly illuminating and for discussions' sake, I'd like to give my take on this. I follow Martin Berkhan's leangains nutrition approach - moderate protein and carb and low in fat, 16h fast and 8h eating window. I keep strictly to my maintenance caloric intake and try to eat as clean as possible. You'll realize that when you only have a limited "feeding window" each day, you don't mess up by overeating, but neither do you deprive yourself of food. Eating till you're satisfied is the best and you don't need to be overly concerned with the content of food that you put into your body, as long as you consciously make the effort to eat good foods as much as possible. I certainly don't disagree with your premise that these 4 foods are bad for you; I just feel that there is no need to deprive yourself of food. There're no such things as good or bad foods any more, as much of the food available to us nowadays is fortified or enhanced. No one can say for sure if it's a good or bad thing to add vitamins into bread, but it's certainly keeping people alive. My 3 strength and 2 soccer conditioning training sessions per week, along with my Saturday soccer with friends, have certainly also played a part in keeping me easily at 9% body fat, which is good enough for me. I love the way I look and feel and my abs have been visible ever since I first transitioned into fasting. It's really about moderation, food intake and listening to your body, most of all.
In case people were wondering, the slowing down of the metabolic rate in your body is really quite non-existent in fasting individuals, up to 72h. It's also been proven that muscle mass can easily be maintained - just ask Brad Pilon - so nope, metabolic rates do not just slow down like that. More than 99% of your metabolic rate is derived from your organs. I doubt that fasting would decrease the size and function of your organs, unless you were starved - 7 days or more without food! I have pizza every week and fast food quite a few times a month and yet my blood pressure, cholesterol levels and body composition's not altered. As far as strength gains go, I can back squat and deadlift my bodyweight and bench nearly that. I can run the 100m in 12s and a mile in 6min. I can do 12 pullups with perfect form. So, fasting doesn't really take much away from you, does it? -
The whole plant based vs. omnivorous diet is a very interesting debate. Within it their is three sub-debates: health and wellness, environmental stewardship, and morality.
As for health and wellness, certainly many studies show that eating a plant based diet has many benefits. In fact, plant based diets are common among cultures who have above average lifespans (check out this TED talk: http://tinyurl.com/ydy7whv). It's also possible to 'get swole' while eating an entirely plant based diet. Just check out Mike Mahler over at his website, or the guys and gals over at Vegan Body builder. Personally, I tried eating vegan for a few weeks, as an experiment. While I felt fine and probably gained some muscle, I also gained a lot of fat. If you want to eat a plant based diet AND build a bad ass physique, you're going to have to spend a lot of time thinking about, and preparing the food that you're putting in your body.
On the flip side, I feel great when I'm eating animal products, however I think you do need to be careful with what you put in your body and there is merit to the whole grass-fed/organic/antibiotic-free/hormone-free/non-processed meat market.
In terms of environmental stewardship, factory farming has been shown, and rightfully so, to be environmentally destructive. It produces a plethora of green house gasses that no doubt contribute to global climate change and other environmentally deleterious effects. This is one aspect of diet where vegans and vegetarians can sit a top their high horses and claim they have a more environmentally friendly diet. Wrong. Just check out 'The Vegitarian Myth' by Lierre Keith. She claims that plant farming is just as devastating. According to her, and I think she might be right, the only way to have a sustainable food system is to produce most of our food within the community as too eliminate the transportation and GHG emissions.
Finally the morality debate. Unfortunately this is purely a subjective debate. What I deem right and wrong will be completely different from the next person. Personally I don't see anything wrong with killing an animal and eating it--human civilization is built upon the foundations of a healthy cycle of life and death. I do feel bad knowing that my eating habits may be environmentally destructive though. This is why, when I can, I buy as many locally produced products as possible.
Anyways, just my thoughts...Mark Sisson makes a really good argument on his website called 'In Defense of Meat' or something to that effect.
JR -
@ Clement
Im with you on the fasting periods, i think they work really well. i personally tried the 11am-7pm system and it felt easy and kept me lean. Regarding your squat and deadlift, you really need to be hitting bigger numbers than own bodyweight to be considered strong (more like 2xBW SQ/DL and 1.5 for bench). Maybe stop running 6 minute miles will help this.
i think eating 'bad foods' is ok if you abide by the 90% clean eating rule, which i think is the message of this blog? -
@Clement
Friggin awesome post, man. I follow Pilon's Eat Stop Eat and contintually hit PR's everyday in the gym. I also eat the "junk" food that you eat too with no ill effects....which is why I posted my original comment. This "rumor" that you *HAVE* to eat clean 90%+ of the time is absolute garbage. People need to stop being brainwashed by nutrition guru's (not pointed at Nate since that was not his intent of this post) and do what works for you. Eat what you want and if you start to see performance, physique, or blood nutrient levels degrade, THEN adjust your diet. Everybody's body is predispositioned to handle different foods differently. Fasting and exercise increases your metabolic flexibility so that you can enjoy food, clean or dirty. I hate eating clean, and I do as little of it as possible....while maintaing acceptable physique, performance, and internal health.
ROCK!! -
i hate kraut as much as cats hate water lol and this as a german hahahah
no serious i hate this shit
And jonny walker... i cant even smell that shit. its just cheap crap.... -
Good read, Nate. I don't eat much bread anymore, but when I do it's like Jesus opens up the heavens because there's nothing better than getting a fresh loaf of bread from a local bakery and going to town.
-
@ Dave Sandel
I have to disagree with your statement "eat what you want..." I have taken over 5000 PT sessions in the past 5 years in 3 different countries and those who can eat "what they like" are in the minority (about 2%). I, and my hard-working fat loss clients like to call that 2% 'lucky bastards'. Great if you can get away with it, but my hunch is that the inside of their bodies do not look like the outside and it will eventually catch up with them.
We all know someone who is ripped who eats absolute junk (very rare) and we all know an overweight person that struggle to lose weight eating relatively well (very common).
Just dont agree with the notion that everyone can "eat what they like", there are too many factors like blood type, genetics, digestion, thyroid activity, etc. that dictate weight gain/loss success in individuals. My main point being, you are in the 2% of the population who can visually get away with eating whatever you like. -
@JR
Great points. The environmental debate is also very interesting and clear. It takes 10lbs of grain on a feed lot to equal 1lbs of finished beef.* It also takes 5,214!!! gals of water for 1 lbs of beef to reach your table, 815gals for chicken, and 1,630 gals fora pound of pork .* It takes about 75 gals of crude oil to kill a steer.* Also the vast amount of waste that comes out the other end of the animals from eating.
In contrast 1 lbs of lettuce takes 23gals of water, 24gals for tomatoes and 25gals for wheat.*Less then a 1/8 of a gal of oil per lbs.* And with little to no waste. If grown organically will take CO2 out of the air.
Lierre Keith and yourself are correct we need local sustainable agriculture. Shop at local farmers markets. Plant a garden. Anything. The average meals travel 1500 miles to get to your plate.* We simple consume too much. You consume less if you switch to a plant base diet.* Simple fact.
Love this debate! Glad people are have conversations about it!
Thanks,
Pat
*The water information came from the University of California Agricultural Extension,2009. The oil info. is from Micheal Pollen and his research,2008. Also the UN 2010 Environmental Guidelines has most of this collected information. -
I remember your first post on t-nation Nate, when you first gained some size. Recently found your blog and it's great stuff.
No fast food for me, and I try to get grass fed beef most of the time. However without grains to supplement the extra needed calories in my diet I lose muscle faster then should be humanly possible, I wish the opposite was true. I know the first thing to say would be get that from fruit and veggies and it works ok for maintenance but it just isn't a viable option when gaining weight, at least for me. -
@Nathan
I thought my qualifiers of "performance, physique, and blood levels" were sufficient. I'm not saying eat what you want all the time and it will magically happen. The one thing we know is that people have the body they have by eating the way they are eating. If you keep going with the status quo that got you flabby, then you will continue to be flabby. However, if you increase your metabolic flexibility, it is possible. Maybe you do have to clean up your diet for an amount of time in order to meet your goals. Once your goals are met (whatever they may be), you can then begin to re-introduce your guilty pleasures. And I'd also add that you can have your guilty pleasures along the way too, just not in the volume you used to. I've had Type II diabetic clients lose 50+ pounds eating pizza weekly.
We agree, everyone is individual and everyone has different needs. However, you can do certain things to try optimize your genetic dispositions. -
@Nathan:
Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad that this form of IF resides with you as well. Just to clarify, I don't run miles! I've recently started strength training, a change from Turbulence Training-style workouts, to increase strength. I just did a mile test last week and quoted the result, as I'm an avid soccer player. Don't worry - no repetitive, steady state exercise here! As for the lifting numbers, yeah, I definitely need to improve on them!
In defense of Dave, I think he means that he doesn't really eat junk all the time. It's just that he doesn't follow the 90% rule. Maybe calorie-restricted (through fasting) and 75% clean, I'm guessing!
@Dave:
Yes, I used to follow ESE as well! The only issue I had with it was that I found the leangains approach easier to follow. Martin Berkhan's probably coming out with an extensive book on his form of fasting, no doubt. You should take a look at it when it comes out! -
Nate- great blog, I really enjoy it. 1st Post!
All- Based on all the reading, evidence, and information I have, it is my opinion that Pat has some really good information. I will give you my example, I am not here to preach. I am twenty-eight, male, ex university athlete, still in good shape. Thirteen months ago I changed my diet to eliminate all animal products (this includes dairy). While not eating a lot of meat before this, I was eating some chicken and fish (as told to by most lifting gurus). I had pretty much cancelled out beef a few yrs ago as Food Inc, Earthlings, Fast Food Nation had really made me consider where these products came from. In this time I have gained both muscle strength and endurance, and lost about five pounds. I am five foot eight and seventy-nine kilograms (177lbs). Just to note my fitness - front squat 290x1, 13 pullups, bodyweight bench x 5, deadlift 340 x 1.
When I made this decision (as a trial basis) last year, it was made with the following considerations:
personal health, political, ethical (moral).
If you care to read some more (not for the faint of heart)-
It takes 16 pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef. That means 16 times the amount of small animals had to die for the beef, and 15 pounds of food that could have been used to feed people, went to feed the cow. It is not possible to eliminate ALL death, but it is possible and practical to reduce the amount of suffering. 70% of the amazon rainforest is gone due to deforestation, 90% of which is a result of raising livestock. Livestock contributes more than transportation to global warming. (the argument of a vegan driving a hummer > meat-consumer driving a Prius). It pollutes in vast quantities our water and air, and ruins the soil. 40% of global grain production goes to livestock animals. Meat is increasingly being shown to have negative health effects by the medical community. It is linked to obesity, diabetes, osteoporosis, CHD, atherosclerosis, and most
industry-produced meat is diseased, laced with antibiotics, hormones, steroids, and most packaged meat has traces of fecal matter. Not to mention the food-borne illnesses associated with meat. What about cholesterol? It only comes in meat in any substantial amount. Furthermore, as for the treatment of
animals, most of us are confused about our moral obligations to them. We treat our dogs and cats as members of the family, and certainly would not eat them given alternatives, but we stick forks in other animals we deem as food. We would certainly stop someone from beating or blowtorching their dog or cat, and possibly bring criminal charges, however we pay to support the torture and killing of other animals. We are very confused between what we say we feel about animals, and how we actually treat them. Our moral schizophrenia deludes us.
How I feel about certain products:
Milk- its for babies (arnold!) haha, really though, its got blood and puss in it. High in fat, does NOT do the body good.
Fast food- seems most posters here will agree its shameful to call this food.
There is more if you come asking for it.
What interested me when I made this choice was the derision and animosity it brought from some close friends and family. People telling me I would wither away, that I would get sick from lack of vitamins. I do take a multi vitamin, that's all. I actually became stronger, leaner, and more alert throughout the day.
Pat was right when posted that your tastebuds change, you get them back! I can taste things better now.
The variety of food out there for us to enjoy is much larger than I had personally thought. Going to a vegan diet brought me new food ideas, bean soups, chickpeas, tofu, soy products, many types of vegetables!
I am 100% with my choice to become vegan, and if you have any comment or question I will do my best to add to the discussion.
Cheers -
You know I think it's cool to just be able to have these conversations about diet and health. When you talk to an average person they look at you like YOU'RE INSANE. If you try to eat even moderately healthy people think you're depriving yourself or something. At least that's how it is in North Carolina. It seems like most people never question what they eat or where it comes from. Few make the connection between what they eat and the diseases that plague society. They blame old age, but we are seeing the diseases appear in younger and younger populations.
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+1
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I believe a well balanced life is what it is all about. I eat junk in moderation, but I know if it get’s out of control my body fat will increase. I enjoy sprinting as well as resistance exercise which has kept my body fat levels fairly low. The foods that I try to avoid are lasagna…please leave that ricotta cheese out. That stuff is disgusting. I also stay away from drinking my calories, strombolies, and the other white meat. I laugh when fitness professionals say they are very strict with their diet, but they drink. How toxic is alcohol? My 2 cents.
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@ohs
Completely agree with you. The ethical, environmental, and health arguments are to convincing. This is a case that ignorance is not bliss! I challenge anyone to know more about where their food comes from and not be effected or have it change your prospective on how you view your life and the people that you care about.
We are processed people. Our food is processed, our media is processed, and our mind and body are now processed. You don't even have to dig that deep to find the answers. Just have to push out the layers of bullshit first.
Hope this conversation spreads, to other peoples, friends and family. Might save a life or something. One more thing, Earthlings made Food Inc. look like a Disney movie! Great powerful film.
Thanks again,
Pat -
"If you look at from an evolutionary perspective, we've only been engaged in agriculture for the past 10,000 years. That's a blip on the scale. Before that, humans didn't eat much cereal grains, relying instead on things they could hunt, pick, or dig up.
So I'd rather get my carbs from fruits, veggies, and peri-workout nutrition."
Im missing a link in the the logic here. Bread is out because it wasnt a part of human evolution(or only within the last 10,000years), but periworkout nutrition is fine? ( -
Do you mean Hpnotiq?
-
@ Ty
Probably. -
@Steve
I've actually received a few e-mails about this.
Really, I guess it comes down to a choice. While I don't think we were designed to eat bread (just like we're probably not designed to eat "peri-workout nutrition") there is a benefit, in my opinion, in the peri-workout nutrition: bigger muscles, better performance, and quicker recovery.
For me, that's a trade-off I'm willing to make for now. (I think that's why I like the occasional bourbon and cigar, too. Definitely not things we were meant to imbibe.)
So, yeah, you have a very good point about "not being made to eat something." When it comes down to it, though, I think you have to take a look at the benefit/negative ratio and see whether it's a smart decision for you.
I just choose not to eat bread all that often.
-Nate -
@ohs
Nice post man, I went vegetarian (not vegan) for a year, but found it tricky to get enough protein in my diet. I workout 6 times a week (3 total body strength workouts and 3 different energy systems) plus martial arts training 5-6 times a week. While I didn't feel any strictly negative effects at the time, since bringing meat back into my diet and upping the protein in the last 9 months, I've seen much more satisfying gains in both in my numbers in the weight room and my overall fitness.
I've only been weight training seriouly for less than two years now, so I don't have much experience to compare between the vegetarian/meat eating diet, but I'd really appreciate your thoughts on how you get enough protein. I think it'd be good if I even just cut down on meat rather that get rid of it completely.
Cheers man -
fjs-
Thanks for your comments. AFAIC, there is a big myth about protein requirements in the media, culture, etc. There is lots of protein in vegetables. For example, lettuce gets 34% of its calories from protein, and broccoli gets 45% of its calories from protein. Spinach is 49%. Cauliflower is 40%. Celery is 21%. Beans range from 23% to 54% depending on the variety. Grains are 8% to 31%. Nuts and seeds are 8% to 21%. Fruits are the lowest at around 5-8% on average.
North Americans are seemingly obsessed with protein. Does this allow them to feel better about eating a 9 Oz steak a few times per week?
My feeling is that most people are getting enough or more than enough protein.
While just about every whole food contains some protein, the soybean deserves special mention because it contains all the essential amino acids and surpasses all other food plants in the amount of protein that it can deliver to the human system. In this regard, it is nearly equal to meat.
It's important to note that most nutritionists, dieticians, and official sources agree that we need only 2.5%-10% of our calories from protein, and all vegetables offer us more than that.
I have not had any issues with getting adequate protein intake. I eat a lot of unbleached unsalted almonds (good fats), cashews, legumes, sprouts, carrots, bananas, lots of beans, black beans especially.
Going out for the evening now, tofu burgers and a couple Guinness (for the iron, of course).
Cheers -
I really wish people would quit it with the "We weren't designed" argument. Uh, yeah, we were. As omnivores, humans evolved to eat anything and everything that provided nutrients and didn't kill them in the process. Sure, at different points in history, and in different geographical locations, human diets have been different. That, however, had more to do with what was available at the time, than choice. Processing carbs is no different from frying your meat.
Some people don't do well with certain foods. But a lactose intolerant individual has no business claiming that "humans didn't evolve to eat dairy". Processing foods allowed mass production and harvesting of extra calories, which in turn helped fuel the modern society and life we all know and love. One simply has to make smart choices regarding their food sources.
@ohs - I would love to find out where you're getting those percentages. Seriously.
That little rant aside, I've removed most fast food chains and all alcohol from my diet, even from the cheat section. Some things - like bourbon - just don't agree with me (much to my dismay). -
This commentary sounds very similar to the same preachings of Chris Shugart over TMuscle. The V-diet livefeed every day usually has some very interesting and insightful information that follows a lot of these guidelines. Also, the blog and livefeed occasionally have recipes that find ways to incorporate healthier alternatives into your lifestyle, especially alternatives for bread (hint: almond flour plays a big part).
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@ohns
RDA's for any type of nutrient, micro or macro, are generally lower level limits for a normal citizen, ie mostly sedentary with minimal physical activity. Also, the low level of protein and the high level of carbohydrates embraced by the U.S. government as dietary guidelines could also be affected by a realization that we will not be able to endlessly supply adequate calories to a growing population with commercialized meat as a major food source.
I've heard people say that the single highest evolutionary pressure on humans in the developed world is adapting to a high carb/refined carb diet. -
Any kind of Smirnoff. Swear it's rubbing alcohol.
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Don't know if it has been linked yet. Real good reading here concerning this "China Study" so many are fast to throw up into a debate.
original link here...http://jonnybowdenblog.com/why-i-am-not-a-vegetarian/
"Dr. Jonny Bowden -
And before you bring it up, let me address “The China Study”.
The “China Study” refers to a popular book that came out in 2005 by Professor T. Colin Campbell. Campbell was a researcher on a massive project called “The China Project” (also known as the China Study). Campbell’s book is not “The China Study” despite having the same name as the original. Rather, his book contains his conclusions about the research. Those conclusions can be summed up as this: protein is really bad for you, animal protein is the worst of all, a vegan diet is the healthiest diet on earth, and every nutrient you need you can get from plants.
The book is frequently used by vegans and vegetarians to “prove” that a vegetarian diet is healthier than any on the planet, and that protein- especially animal protein- is bad for you. They consider the book “conclusive proof” of that position.
To repeat: Colin Campbell’s book “The China Study” is not the actual China Study (also known as the China Project). The “real”, full-length study is titled “Diet, life-style, and mortality in China: A study of the characteristics of 65 Chinese counties [Chen J].”; it’s an enormously thick and difficult book that gathered data on 367 variables across 65 countries involving 6500 adults and yielding over 8,000 statistically significant associations. The popular book “China Study” by Campbell represents, as mentioned, his conclusions about this data – conclusions which have been fiercely debated, by the way. He uses hand selected, cherry picked data from the study to support his rabid pro-vegan position and leaves out everything that contradicts it.
(Campbell is associated with Physicians for Responsible Medicine, a vegan animal rights group masquerading as a responsible medical organization.)
It’s interesting that no one with a research background takes Campbell’s work very seriously. It’s too easy to spot the biases, the methodological problems, the cherry-picking and the spinning. And some statements are so patently ridiculous that all you can do is roll your eyes. (Example: “Eating foods that contain any cholesterol above 0 mg is unhealthy”.) But this is not the place to take Campbell’s book apart. For those who are interested in hearing “the other side” to Campbell’s propaganda—excuse me, I mean arguments—I suggest the excellent article by Chris Masterjohn on the Weston A. Price Foundation website, or you can find a version of it here" http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html
As far for me and my thoughts on grass fed beefs. I've learned from people who have worked in the meat industry for many, many years. You'll rarely, rarely ever get 100% truly grass fed beef. The differences in omega-3 content/CLA is not really that big anyways. As per Shelby Sternes, you just supplement with more fish oil if eating grain fed beef. From time to time I'll buy Amish raised beef. Yet I don't really think it matters that much in the grand scheme of things. When most of us already are eating better than most people. I think more people should worry about getting their fruits/veggies in with every portion of meat, to keep acidic levels stable in our bodies.
4 things I'll almost never eat again
1. Wonder bread
2. Candy bars (throw some protein bars in there too lol!)
3. sugary/alcohol mixed drinks
4. cheap chinese food -
@Carlito
Response from the Dr.Campbell himself.
http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/campbell_china_response.htm
Glad to see people are becoming more informed. Just have to check your sources.Peer reviewed studies are key.
Thanks,
Pat -
Nate,
You hit the nail on the head with some basics that most people get totally wrong. Im tired of dispelling the egg white myth to clients. Studies have shown no negative impact on your cholesterol from eating eggs. The yolks contain a ton of digestive enzymes, vitamins, essential fats, and protein. There one of the most bioavailable proteins too! The public is still too fat phobic.
Multi-grain bread, where should I start? If it comes in a package and or has any health claims on the package, you probably shouldnt eat it. We need to educate the public on reading food labels on the back and not the front side marketing. Hopefully the FDA enforces a relabeling system for packaged foods soon. -
Great post! All these facts were so new to me. I had no idea that the whole grain bread sold in stores was almost as unhealthy as white. Thanks for the cool info!
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Fast food is like sleeping with a fat girl: you know you shouldn't do it and you feel sick afterwards.
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Banker's Club.
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I know what you mean about whole eggs vs. egg whites. However, for those of us trying to lose fat, a compromise of, say, 2 whole eggs with 4 egg whites works awesome well.
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I agree with you on the fast food. Fast food and cookies (oreo's in particular) are my biggest down fall. Wish there was a good way I could give them up and stick with it. I can give them up for a while but then I fall right back to eating them. Any suggestions?
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On eggs, i eat the whooole damn thing, body fat's not a problem so i dont really care.
I HATE:
Cold Cuts
Goat or Lamb Meat
Hard Liquor
Peanut Butter
Raisins(Trail Mixes)
etc....
Im a picky bastard, hahaha -
Hey Nate
i agree on most, but what has hipnotic done to you for you to ban it from your list of favorite blue things to ingest?
i love incredible hulks on occasion (3-4 times a year)
would love to hear some nasty shit about it from you so i can deny myself the pleasure of getting too drunk and eating crap later (although i normaly munch on healthy shit after drinking... i know weird..)
keep it going! -
About the whole grain bread; You got to try the breads here in Norway, the breads in the US, and in Mexico where my borther lives - are absolutely crap! Breads here taste so much better and have so few ingredients compared to what you have over in the US. Breads should not stay fresh more then a few days, a bread that keeps for months, is not a bread!
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ANY fast food! Not only is it unhealthy... you never know what "extras" come with your food.
Most of the kids working in these places can't even take care of themselves, why would you think they care about your food.
No thanks. I'll cook at home. -
I can see that you are an expert at your field! I am launching a website soon, and your information will be very useful for me.. Thanks for all your help and wishing you all the success.
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Good article, completely agree, however the majority of the protein in eggs is located in the egg white. I'll keep eating homemade bread though! :)
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I personally like the half and half approach to eggs since I eat them all the time. I usually have 6-8 eggs for breakfast, and only use 3 or sometimes 4 yolks.
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Good article!
DAMN VEGANS! We don't care about your incomplete proteins.
I have avoided eggs in general for the passed 8 years. I am now making a pact to cut out fast food. Whole grain bread is gone, because of this article. Will look for grass finished beef. -
Great post, interesting post, actually written and intelligent, insightful information really best information and content, excellent explanation with relevant and current content, thank you
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Nate Green 9:50am Jun 24, 2010